ffxiclopediafandomcom-20200213-history
Talk:Aspir
Anyone know anything about the formula for mp taken with this spell? I know it's partly randomized, but I was hoping increasing my dark skill would help. Caidryn 05:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)Caidryn :It does. --Toksyuryel 12:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC) We were trying to come up with a way to test the MAB no effect claim, which I'm certain is true but holy sex if it isn't. Naked BLM vs naked DRK on similar mobs, aspiring simultaneously so that there's no chance moon phase/weather/time/anything could effect the aspir, parsing up at least 100 aspirs. --Headache 03:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Some Simple Tests I hear conflicting arguments here, some people say only Magic Accuracy boost Drain/Aspir. Some say its Magic Attack. Well no one has actually posted any tests here so I did some quick ones. All testing was done under Waxing Gibbous 67% and Windsday, a nuetral day. Test was conducted in North Gustaburg S against a Tunnle Worm right outside the zone to Bastok. I was a Lv75 RDM with BLM sub. I know I shouldnt have subbed BLM and I know I should have a larger sample size, but do keep in mind this was supposed to be a quick test to determine for myself what to Drain/Aspir with. All tests were with Aspir so I could repeat them on the same exact mob. Test 1: Base Int 77, No Equipment, No Food. 54, 82, 61, 49, 46, 56, 47, 52, 48, 73 *Average: 56.8 *Lowest: 46 *Highest: 82 Test 2: Int Gear Only, Int 77+43 (120). 87, 52, 85, 85, 65, 68, 87, 77, 50, 89, *Average: 74.5 *Lowest: 50 *Highest: 89 Test 3: Magic Accuracy Gear Only. Int 77, MACC+9. 51, 62, 83, 86, 82, 67, 88, 58, 77, 52 *Average: 70.6 *Lowest: 51 *Highest: 88 Test 4: Magic Attack Bonus, +5 and Pluto's Staff (+15%). 83, 80, 66, 101, 83, 102, 88, 90, 97, 94 *Average: 88.4 *Lowest: 66 *Highest: 102 Test 5: Dark Magic Skill (+13). 87, 59, 28, 91, 76, 85, 57, 74, 91, 55 *Average: 70.3 *Lowest: 28 *Highest: 91 Results: According to this data, Magic Attack+ seems to increase the potential maximum that drain/aspir can absorb. INT , Magic Accuracy, and Dark Magic Skill seem to boost the chance of draining more per cast. Although this is not a large sample size, nor (with the exception of INT) do I have lots of gear to test it with, I found results I can use. And YES I know Pluto's Staff gives Mag.Acc as well as Mag.Att but since I already concluded that Mag.Acc only lessens "resist rate" and not boost the drain cap, I didnt feel it would hurt my data to much. I did these tests on little sleep so if I did do something really stupid or wrong please let me know. Another conclusion is that Worms have ungodly amounts of MP... I Aspired at least 6000MP throughout the course of these tests from a ~Lv10 Worm <_< I rocky 17:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC) :Uhh...the only one you used mab on was also the only one you used pluto's for. Sorry, but this is 100% useless. -- 21:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC) :In addition to Rog's objection, I feel the need to point out that Pluto's staff does NOT give magic attack as you described. The bonus from elemental staves is totally independent of magic attack, and there are cases where one applies and not the other. See Calculating Magic Damage. Note Holy Bolt additional effect damage as an easily verifiable example where ESB applies but MAB does not. And finally, the consensus is that drain and aspir are affected by elemental staff bonus, but NOT but MAB. VxSote 21:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC) ::If that is true then at least my tests did prove of some use, other then just waste my time. There was no data on the wiki, and now there is, so if anything it got people to put some info up. Thanks I rocky 02:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Facts only please "is not affected by Magic Attack Bonus, or INT." is pure speculation with no proof. It should not be included, especially when it's so disputed. People can come to this page if they want to read into it further or contribute something. :It has been pretty well established that neither MAB nor INT directly increase returns from Aspir. It HAS been tested - I just can't recall where the details were posted. Whether INT affects returns indirectly via accuracy, I cannot say, although I suspect that it DOES. The statement on the front page is misleading simply because it does not differentiate between accuracy and average returns of unresisted aspirs, which still have a random component. The mechanics have never been fully described to my satisfaction, but I *am* convinced that dark magic skill is the only thing most players need worry about. --VxSote 21:36, 12 June 2009 (UTC) You might be convinced but you're in a minority from my experience. Personally I'm in no doubt MAB does increase aspir/drain caps (obviously resists are still a factor). I did some basic tests ages ago on this, nothing too rigorous I admit but enough to see a very marked improvement. Parses also regularly show a big difference between my aspir/drains and those cast by people who insist that dark magic is the only mod. Regardless, we can argue our beliefs back and forth all we want but it won't prove anything and until someone can prove it the page should not state anyone's opinion as fact. Double weakened I've been able to drain/aspir while double weakened before, this indicates to me that MAB doesn't affect Drain/Aspir (or at the very least it isn't the only thing that effects it) Josephpate Here's a write-up of some tests I did. I'm not very happy with it, but perhaps you can find something I missed. http://docs.google.com/View?id=dd4wps3h_1hk8btscg Josephpate :I think it's a good start. As always, more samples give more power; from your results though, I can see a few trends that should be tested further: :#INT seems to adjust the maximum amount of MP that can be drained. :#Dark magic skill seems to adjust the amount of MP drained :#Magic Atk. seems to do both? :For future testing, you should try and focus on one stat (INT/Dark/MATK/...) rather than combing them together to make it easier to isolate what's affecting what. Running an equal number of tests for each condition also helps with analysis. Good luck! -- 03:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC) My plan was to test all possible effects, but i didn't realize how boring it would be. I will probably do more tests, but it will be later in the week. I was up too late last night and as a result my day at work was a living hell. now that i know that sleeping mobs ruins my test subject it should be pretty straightforward. Any suggestions on what to start with first?Josephpate :You'll need a control group first (ie. no modifiers whatsoever), then just pick a stat and start tweaking it---probably just max it out rather than gradually increase it to get the greatest effect. If you're doing it on extremely low-level mobs, you probably don't have to worry about keeping the same test subject, their stats are going to be too low to have any real resisting effects.-- 08:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC) I want to keep the same subject so I don't waste time aspiring for 0, also on a few of the previous tests I couldn't be sure if the cast before 0mp drained was only a partial aspir. But my question was this: Which stat do we need the most testing on? INT, MATK, Dark Skill? I'm afraid the only MACC gear I have is Morgana's Cotehardie (+8 MATK -8 MACC) so that's probably a non-starter. More tests: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dd4wps3h_2fqn2zfg4 +61 INT seems to be near useless on N.Gustaberg worms.... maybe there is an INT cap on Aspir.Josephpate :Maybe... although the averages are close, the distribution of values isn't: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=r60qqfvM88AMnNJnm1BPCJA :-- 05:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Soooo.... what do you want? More tests with INT? Shall I switch to MAB? Josephpate Tests with +16 MATK: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dd4wps3h_3d9hcbndp looks like MATK has no effect on aspir alsoJosephpate couple of tests with Dark Skill: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dd4wps3h_4gwd7v8hh Josephpate Removed From Main page I removed the following from under the Notes section: Day/Weather effects and Magic Burstshttp://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/2003_-_%2810/21/2003%29_Update_Details. Every spell in the game is affected by these conditions, should be no need to single this one out. Link is to a 7 year old article that simply stated that the spell would now be affected by these condidtions, not that they would be affected more than other spells and therefore warrant a statement. If anyone feels that for some reason this particular spell needs this info then please say so here. Alehldean 19:31, May 30, 2010 (UTC) Actual Calculations Someone has done a lot of work to summarize the calculations for drain/aspir. http://irethesire.livejournal.com/2703.html is a summary and http://robonosto.blogspot.com/search/label/dark%20magic is the full research. I didn't do the work, just found it and passing along Velvetisis 14:31, December 5, 2011 (UTC)